I definitely think device is disrespected & disregard in the GOAT convo and idk why. He really was a crazy good rifle like top 5 player in the world then swapped to awping. Been apart of a dynasty & was the #1 player in the dynasty. 4 majors, ~20 MVPs, 2 major MVPs, tied for most major appearances. He’s more accomplished than everyone thats ever mentioned & just as talented.
Asyl1m
u/Soft_Bed_412 he called you out, and said you would do this and you did.
kowasesurejjihanma
This felt like the Karrigan or Gla1ve Best IGL conversation but the AWPer version
Mysterii00
Perfectly reasonable and fair take. Both s1mple and dev1ce are the interchangeable GOAT’s for me.
Rippur
Scientology ruined his form 😔
Zhiong_Xena
Device is definitely behind both S1mple and ZywOo, and arguably even Niko, as the greatest player in csgo.
Even as an awper, S1mple, ZywOo, have better claims, and kenny, GuardiaN nothing less than an equal claim.
If we consider only peaks even players like Coldzera, Fallen, JW, Olof, enter the conversation.
He was very good, but very rarely the best, throughout his career. Ever since ZywOo, he was very rarely even a runner up.
He was one of the first great complete and primary awps that was excellent, meaning just as good with other weapons as well. He may be the most consistent, only niko being comparable when consistency in csgo is concerned. Maybe even slightly underrated the past few years, but he has in all fairness fallen off a great deal.
GeekyNerd_FTW
I mean, he’s not
1: s1mple
2: ZywOo
3: dev1ce
4: NiKo
5: GeT_RiGhT
iamkwang
How are people saying zyw0o > dev1ce in this thread lmao. Yes Zyw0o is amazing but he only entered the scene realistically late 2018. Meanwhile dev1ce was a top player from 2014-2021/2022 while having the most MVPs, most Major MVPs and on the most successful team of all time (astralis). You can say s1mple > dev1ce as there is legit discussion but I will not take Zywo0 over either of these
shiv101
This is like if people say Tim Duncan is better than Lebron or Mbappe/iniesta is better than Ronaldo. Or Andy Murray isn’t in the big 4 conversations.
“ring culture” is so stupid especially in team sports. Dev1ce is great but give him s1mple and zwyoos teams and he doesn’t do nearly as well as those guys did. Lets slow down a little.
Interesting_Yogurt43
There’s obviously room for this debate.
I think it depends what people considers to be the best way to argue this. Does individual performance matter more than achievements or not?
If we go by performance, then s1mple is the best between both, and the best overall in the history of GO. Dev1ce will never be as good as s1mple was. Hell, if we consider peaks then Dev1ce would be behind a lot of players. He was never known to be extremely skilled with either AWP or rifle, but he was consistent with both. Reliable, efficient. Fallen, Guardian, KennyS were all more skilled than Dev1ce with the AWP, Dev1ce had Fallen as his inspiration, and even then none of them were as consistent as he was for almost a decade.
And s1mple will likely never achieve what Dev1ce achieved. Zywoo is in a much better position to achieve what Dev1ce achieved and I still think he won’t come closer.
AdTime8070
“CSGO Goat” is just a copium from fans who can’t accept zywoo’s inevitable status.
Why is everything from stats, records etc were brought from csgo to cs2 but not the GOAT status?
Ready for the donwvotes.
naastiknibba95
It is true, yes everyone knows s1mple had a higher peak but device has him COMPREHENSIVELY beat because of his much longer career with consistent top 3-4 level performance. Device literally is playing at top level from 2014. It would’ve been even wider of a margin if device didn’t bench himself in 2020-21…
Jarkrik
To give some perspective to the GOAT discussion and for those familiar with Tennis.
If you ask most tennis fans, who the male GOAT of tennis is, they would mention Djoko only because numbers, but the actual GOAT; the guy that got people & celebs to show up is Federer.
He was both the best at times and among the best and has undeniable general and cultural impact. He pushed the sport further. We need to not just sit on the words “cultural” impact, but impact in general.
Dev1ce did not have this effect. Yes, Astralis as a team pushed CSGO further, but that does not make every play GOAT candidate. Astralis as a team had huge impact and great success.
It would be a different story for dev1ce if he’d ever had this huge success with other teams.
So to stick to moses reasoning for why s1mple is not back yet in the current major: “we need a bigger sample size”
tendopath
Because we have eyes and can use context devv is Amazing but s1mple zywoo are better individual players than him and can break/carry the game in a way dev couldn’t dev had better teams than s1 and zywoo so of course he Won more trophies he really is the Tim Duncan of CS nothing super flashy never the absolute best but always gonna give you consistent high level production and had good teams around him year after year
Mollelarssonq
He’s shared this opinion for many years now, I don’t know, S1mple definitely has had more impact on the fan base, but Dev1ces consistency is going under the vast majority of the communities radar too.
Not such a hot take imo, it’s all about what you value in a player.
ThyagoAmaral
I used to think that dev1ce would eventually reach “Tom Brady status,” where his achievements were so absurd and ahead of everyone else that you couldn’t not call him the GOAT. However, since his departure from Astralis, his insane championship runs came to an end, and he never reached that Brady status.
Without that, it’s really hard to put him above a guy who, for most of the time, was considered more individually talented than him. Don’t get me wrong, he still owns the most absurd résumé in CS:GO history, but I don’t think what he’s done after leaving Astralis is enough to close the gap between him and s1mple in terms of pure skill/talent.
KangorKodos
I ultimately just don’t think he has a good case with it all said and done. You can say he has longevity over s1mple, but does being better in 2013, 2014, and 2015, and an active not top 20 player in 2024 really make up for s1mple being somewhere from clearly better, to overwhelmingly better in 2018,19,20,21, and 22(really really overwhelmingly better in 22, since Device didn’t play), and being kinda similarly good in 2016,17, and 23. That feels dubious to me. This doesn’t feel like the LeBron vs Jordan argument, because they were in different eras. S1mples and devices peaks almost directly overlapped, and we saw s1mple just very obviously be better at the game.
That just seems dubious to me, and I think he is counting major wins. Which is just not good analysis(hey Moses if you are reading this, who is higher all time, Magisk, or Niko. Please tell me why) by the way, he was MVP in 50% of those majors, and was third in one of those MVP races, which is fine, it’s not a knock against him to not have 4 major MVPS. But when you consider s1mple has literally never won a tournament and not won MVP, it really shows the difference in average supporting cast across their career. Device literally has 2 MVPS in S tier events in 2018, that would have been s1mples worst tournament in 2018, 2021, and among his worst tournaments in 2019, 2020, and 2022
So I just don’t think it is a tenable position that Device is the GOAT of CSGO. I think if Moses clearly outlined criteria which resulted in Device being greater than s1mple, they would probably be very silly, and in order to be consistent when comparing other players he would have to believe a bunch of really ridiculous things.
themajorfletch
I’d say dupreeh is the tom Brady of CS, he even won a major with a completely different squad.
StenkaRazin9
Put that same device on a not top1 team and he won’t do shit. Be works well in a structured team doesn’t shine with brilliant solo playa
AWildRideHome
Is being the GOAT the same as being the best player? I think not, then we wouldn’t be calling it two different things.
People forget S1mple used to be an absolute toxic teammate, and honestly, he was often an asshole to other people. Are you the greatest if you have nearly fractured multiple teams with your ego and toxicity? He’s supposedly grown a lot, but I just can’t in good conscious give him GOAT with his… colorful history for half of his CSGO career. S1mple is definitely the best player, but not the most succesful.
Dev1ce isn’t as skilled as S1mple, or Zywoo. There has been periods when players like FalleN and GuardiaN outperformed him as an AWPer too. But he is consistently top3-5 AWP across basically all of CSGO history, and is a team-player with no major scandals until post Astralis era. He was the best player on the undisputed best team ever. Being able to win more events and majors is not about pure individual skill, it’s also about being a player people want to play with, and a good teammate.
Also people forgot, but his rifle skills were on par with Niko, Simple and Zywoo back when he wasn’t as pure of an AWPer as he later became.
I think you can confidently say that Dev1ce was the most succesful CSGO player we’ve ever seen. Never the best, always close. Most trophies, most majors, lots of MVPs, barely any breaks or pauses from top tier teams and performances.
21 Comments
dupreeh slander
I definitely think device is disrespected & disregard in the GOAT convo and idk why. He really was a crazy good rifle like top 5 player in the world then swapped to awping. Been apart of a dynasty & was the #1 player in the dynasty. 4 majors, ~20 MVPs, 2 major MVPs, tied for most major appearances. He’s more accomplished than everyone thats ever mentioned & just as talented.
u/Soft_Bed_412 he called you out, and said you would do this and you did.
This felt like the Karrigan or Gla1ve Best IGL conversation but the AWPer version
Perfectly reasonable and fair take. Both s1mple and dev1ce are the interchangeable GOAT’s for me.
Scientology ruined his form 😔
Device is definitely behind both S1mple and ZywOo, and arguably even Niko, as the greatest player in csgo.
Even as an awper, S1mple, ZywOo, have better claims, and kenny, GuardiaN nothing less than an equal claim.
If we consider only peaks even players like Coldzera, Fallen, JW, Olof, enter the conversation.
He was very good, but very rarely the best, throughout his career. Ever since ZywOo, he was very rarely even a runner up.
He was one of the first great complete and primary awps that was excellent, meaning just as good with other weapons as well. He may be the most consistent, only niko being comparable when consistency in csgo is concerned. Maybe even slightly underrated the past few years, but he has in all fairness fallen off a great deal.
I mean, he’s not
1: s1mple
2: ZywOo
3: dev1ce
4: NiKo
5: GeT_RiGhT
How are people saying zyw0o > dev1ce in this thread lmao. Yes Zyw0o is amazing but he only entered the scene realistically late 2018. Meanwhile dev1ce was a top player from 2014-2021/2022 while having the most MVPs, most Major MVPs and on the most successful team of all time (astralis). You can say s1mple > dev1ce as there is legit discussion but I will not take Zywo0 over either of these
This is like if people say Tim Duncan is better than Lebron or Mbappe/iniesta is better than Ronaldo. Or Andy Murray isn’t in the big 4 conversations.
“ring culture” is so stupid especially in team sports. Dev1ce is great but give him s1mple and zwyoos teams and he doesn’t do nearly as well as those guys did. Lets slow down a little.
There’s obviously room for this debate.
I think it depends what people considers to be the best way to argue this. Does individual performance matter more than achievements or not?
If we go by performance, then s1mple is the best between both, and the best overall in the history of GO. Dev1ce will never be as good as s1mple was. Hell, if we consider peaks then Dev1ce would be behind a lot of players. He was never known to be extremely skilled with either AWP or rifle, but he was consistent with both. Reliable, efficient. Fallen, Guardian, KennyS were all more skilled than Dev1ce with the AWP, Dev1ce had Fallen as his inspiration, and even then none of them were as consistent as he was for almost a decade.
And s1mple will likely never achieve what Dev1ce achieved. Zywoo is in a much better position to achieve what Dev1ce achieved and I still think he won’t come closer.
“CSGO Goat” is just a copium from fans who can’t accept zywoo’s inevitable status.
Why is everything from stats, records etc were brought from csgo to cs2 but not the GOAT status?
Ready for the donwvotes.
It is true, yes everyone knows s1mple had a higher peak but device has him COMPREHENSIVELY beat because of his much longer career with consistent top 3-4 level performance. Device literally is playing at top level from 2014. It would’ve been even wider of a margin if device didn’t bench himself in 2020-21…
To give some perspective to the GOAT discussion and for those familiar with Tennis.
If you ask most tennis fans, who the male GOAT of tennis is, they would mention Djoko only because numbers, but the actual GOAT; the guy that got people & celebs to show up is Federer.
He was both the best at times and among the best and has undeniable general and cultural impact. He pushed the sport further. We need to not just sit on the words “cultural” impact, but impact in general.
Dev1ce did not have this effect. Yes, Astralis as a team pushed CSGO further, but that does not make every play GOAT candidate. Astralis as a team had huge impact and great success.
It would be a different story for dev1ce if he’d ever had this huge success with other teams.
So to stick to moses reasoning for why s1mple is not back yet in the current major: “we need a bigger sample size”
Because we have eyes and can use context devv is Amazing but s1mple zywoo are better individual players than him and can break/carry the game in a way dev couldn’t dev had better teams than s1 and zywoo so of course he Won more trophies he really is the Tim Duncan of CS nothing super flashy never the absolute best but always gonna give you consistent high level production and had good teams around him year after year
He’s shared this opinion for many years now, I don’t know, S1mple definitely has had more impact on the fan base, but Dev1ces consistency is going under the vast majority of the communities radar too.
Not such a hot take imo, it’s all about what you value in a player.
I used to think that dev1ce would eventually reach “Tom Brady status,” where his achievements were so absurd and ahead of everyone else that you couldn’t not call him the GOAT. However, since his departure from Astralis, his insane championship runs came to an end, and he never reached that Brady status.
Without that, it’s really hard to put him above a guy who, for most of the time, was considered more individually talented than him. Don’t get me wrong, he still owns the most absurd résumé in CS:GO history, but I don’t think what he’s done after leaving Astralis is enough to close the gap between him and s1mple in terms of pure skill/talent.
I ultimately just don’t think he has a good case with it all said and done. You can say he has longevity over s1mple, but does being better in 2013, 2014, and 2015, and an active not top 20 player in 2024 really make up for s1mple being somewhere from clearly better, to overwhelmingly better in 2018,19,20,21, and 22(really really overwhelmingly better in 22, since Device didn’t play), and being kinda similarly good in 2016,17, and 23. That feels dubious to me. This doesn’t feel like the LeBron vs Jordan argument, because they were in different eras. S1mples and devices peaks almost directly overlapped, and we saw s1mple just very obviously be better at the game.
That just seems dubious to me, and I think he is counting major wins. Which is just not good analysis(hey Moses if you are reading this, who is higher all time, Magisk, or Niko. Please tell me why) by the way, he was MVP in 50% of those majors, and was third in one of those MVP races, which is fine, it’s not a knock against him to not have 4 major MVPS. But when you consider s1mple has literally never won a tournament and not won MVP, it really shows the difference in average supporting cast across their career. Device literally has 2 MVPS in S tier events in 2018, that would have been s1mples worst tournament in 2018, 2021, and among his worst tournaments in 2019, 2020, and 2022
So I just don’t think it is a tenable position that Device is the GOAT of CSGO. I think if Moses clearly outlined criteria which resulted in Device being greater than s1mple, they would probably be very silly, and in order to be consistent when comparing other players he would have to believe a bunch of really ridiculous things.
I’d say dupreeh is the tom Brady of CS, he even won a major with a completely different squad.
Put that same device on a not top1 team and he won’t do shit. Be works well in a structured team doesn’t shine with brilliant solo playa
Is being the GOAT the same as being the best player? I think not, then we wouldn’t be calling it two different things.
People forget S1mple used to be an absolute toxic teammate, and honestly, he was often an asshole to other people. Are you the greatest if you have nearly fractured multiple teams with your ego and toxicity? He’s supposedly grown a lot, but I just can’t in good conscious give him GOAT with his… colorful history for half of his CSGO career. S1mple is definitely the best player, but not the most succesful.
Dev1ce isn’t as skilled as S1mple, or Zywoo. There has been periods when players like FalleN and GuardiaN outperformed him as an AWPer too. But he is consistently top3-5 AWP across basically all of CSGO history, and is a team-player with no major scandals until post Astralis era. He was the best player on the undisputed best team ever. Being able to win more events and majors is not about pure individual skill, it’s also about being a player people want to play with, and a good teammate.
Also people forgot, but his rifle skills were on par with Niko, Simple and Zywoo back when he wasn’t as pure of an AWPer as he later became.
I think you can confidently say that Dev1ce was the most succesful CSGO player we’ve ever seen. Never the best, always close. Most trophies, most majors, lots of MVPs, barely any breaks or pauses from top tier teams and performances.