good riddance for context the developer is an asshat they are doing op a favor
AussieJeffProbst
Well yeah you don’t own your games
reckless150681
This seems pretty reasonable tbh, given the legal controversies that this game is embroiled in + the horrible management by the dev.
Hofnaerrchen
That’s what “owning” digital content is about. You don’t own stuff anymore. You buy the right to use a piece of software (or any other kind of media) until the provider stops providing it. Mostly, because they only had a limited contract themselves.
The only way to have full control about stuff is having a PHYSICAL copy. Not very likely in case of software (use GOG instead, it allows downloading a sort of physical copy) these days, but if you are into music or movies… get a CD or BluRay instead of buying it on a online platform.
cutlarr
you can transfer your epic key to the launcher from the devs, do it while u can still launch the game
L0veToReddit
Whats the story here?
themystifiedguy
Be glad that they’re at least offering a refund unlike I guess what Sony or MS did in the past.
CreatedToFilter
Not familiar with the game. Is this an online only game, or can you play locally or with privately hosted servers?
bot_upboat
They issued a refund what is the problem?
Crazyking224
Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum 🏴☠️
vector_o
If buying isn’t owning, piracy isn’t stealing
ThickFurball367
And that’s why everyone keeps saying, “if buying isn’t owning, then pirating isn’t stealing”
extremelyloudandfast
I mean I got it for free from epic and never played it. they can have it back i guess
asmallman
# TL;DR for the below: Do not be mad at epic/steam/whoever else pulls this from the store or even your library. Ironmace very likely (court determined) sold you a stolen product. Be mad at ironmace.
Before people come in here defending ironmace, please watch the lawsuit breakdown by Kira. Its great and shows that nexon has ***good*** reason to believe their game was outright stolen. And if you look at just the comparison images alone in this video, it really DOES look stolen, on top of that, nexon has proof that the lead dev of ironmace had a private server containing code and assets of Nexons project “P3” that they asked him to take down but he effectively refused and it *really looks like* he ran off with assets and code. Give it a watch. Kira is great at this stuff.
Also people think ironmace has won a prior case that nexon filed, they didnt, they dodged an INJUNCTION.
An injunction is essentially “hey stop doing that thing” and it failed on nexons part.
Ironmace filed an injunction against Nexon, saying “stop bullying me” and Nexon filed an injunction saying “They stole that game, stop selling it” and BOTH were shot down by a judge because of the ~~pending~~ lawsuit ~~that has yet to resolve~~, but in the above lawsuit, it looks like Nexon’s case is pretty damning.
>The court recognized that the defendants used or disclosed Nexon’s trade secrets with wrongful intent and determined that they leveraged P3’s core planning and key development information to create Dark and Darker. The court found that Ironmace’s rapid release of Dark and Darker, based on information containing P3 trade secrets, was a key piece of evidence. The court determined that the game’s sales were largely driven by its early market entry, achieved by significantly shortening the development period. Additionally, the absence of a documented planning phase for Dark and Darker in its early development, and the fact that certain P3 assets (e.g., torches, door systems) were purchased from the Unreal Asset Store, modified in terms of color temperature, saturation, brightness, and scaling, and then identically implemented in Dark and Darker, further supported the court’s decision.
TL;DR of the above:
1. Ironmace did not have early planning stage documents of their development and yet the game came out. They were *somehow unable to produce said documents*.
2. The game came out EXTREMELY fast after Ironmace’s departure from nexon.
3. Reused assets identically in multiple and concurrent different ways.
Ironmaces response:
>Ironmace, for its part, emphasized that the ruling confirmed Dark and Darker does not violate Nexon’s intellectual property rights. The company said it respects the court’s decision and will review the ruling before deciding whether to appeal.
No they stole code. They stole assets. You can see it in the above youtube video. There’s reciepts.
# Not to mention ironmace offices were raided by South Korean police, and prosecutors are looking into filing criminal charges AGAINST them for “alleged trade secret misappropriation, copyright violations, and breach of trust.”
Bit of devil’s advocate here:
So it doesnt matter if you owned dark and darker, the question is if it was legally allowed to exist to begin with, thats why companies are going to stop selling it/remove from your library. You should be mad at ironmace. Not epic or whoever else is gonna pull the content because IROMACE fenced you stolen product per a court order.
Edit: people are saying that they didnt copy anything, the court determined they did, while not outright doing copyright infringement, they DID copy and paste stuff. Please watch the lawsuit breakdown I linked. Kira will literally point out the stuff with ingamge screenshots of the comparison for you. He literally does the work for you.
EvilDan69
If you don’t like that, and obviously nobody would.. get it from good old games for your future purchases. DRM free and you own it.
DigitalBox_
This is just the problem with everything going digital. We no longer buy games to own. We buy games to RENT.
09Klr650
At least you get a refund. Too much digital content is taken without such care.
QuickPirate36
It’s a free to play game and they’re refunding what extra stuff you bough, what exactly are you complaining about?
Codix_
Meanwhile Steam : yeah we still host the files for the user who’s already had it in their library to play it.
TrueGlich
got this too.. prety sure my Legendary status was a freebee from epic or twitch. I think i tired to play the game once and it kept crashing
i_needsourcream
And people crib about Steam “don’t do anything, still win”. Mfs, Steam did everything right with digital ownership, as much as they could.
Oportbis
That’s why we should collectively agree to only buy from Gog, the more users will be on Gog (and exclusively on Gog), the more games available there will be
Balc0ra
I’ve never played the game. But the amount of YT shorts I’ve seen about the game, inc how it’s not really f2p, I suspect most won’t notice it’s gone
RedditMuzzledNonSimp
Having fun with your walled prisons people?
Young-Rider
You shall be a pirate
nemesisprime1984
Training_Chicken8216
It seems like it’s a free game, so it’s not like Epic is taking anything away that you paid for. They’re just no longer allowed to distribute it. And if you paid something, you’re getting a full refund. This seems pretty normal.
Not_Bed_
Well it’s not epic’s fault here though is it
PretendCourage1685
Dr_Axton
Meanwhile steam allows to keep playing games that are now region locked. Or receive them as gifts. Or buying global keys. Or swapping the country for that to not be an issue anymore
Adrima_the_DK
Someone didn’t read the TOU
Laegwe
Why would anyone use Epic lmfao
Living_Mode_6623
If buying isn’t ownership then piracy isn’t theft.
33 Comments
good riddance for context the developer is an asshat they are doing op a favor
Well yeah you don’t own your games
This seems pretty reasonable tbh, given the legal controversies that this game is embroiled in + the horrible management by the dev.
That’s what “owning” digital content is about. You don’t own stuff anymore. You buy the right to use a piece of software (or any other kind of media) until the provider stops providing it. Mostly, because they only had a limited contract themselves.
The only way to have full control about stuff is having a PHYSICAL copy. Not very likely in case of software (use GOG instead, it allows downloading a sort of physical copy) these days, but if you are into music or movies… get a CD or BluRay instead of buying it on a online platform.
you can transfer your epic key to the launcher from the devs, do it while u can still launch the game
Whats the story here?
Be glad that they’re at least offering a refund unlike I guess what Sony or MS did in the past.
Not familiar with the game. Is this an online only game, or can you play locally or with privately hosted servers?
They issued a refund what is the problem?
Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum 🏴☠️
If buying isn’t owning, piracy isn’t stealing
And that’s why everyone keeps saying, “if buying isn’t owning, then pirating isn’t stealing”
I mean I got it for free from epic and never played it. they can have it back i guess
# TL;DR for the below: Do not be mad at epic/steam/whoever else pulls this from the store or even your library. Ironmace very likely (court determined) sold you a stolen product. Be mad at ironmace.
Before people come in here defending ironmace, please watch the lawsuit breakdown by Kira. Its great and shows that nexon has ***good*** reason to believe their game was outright stolen. And if you look at just the comparison images alone in this video, it really DOES look stolen, on top of that, nexon has proof that the lead dev of ironmace had a private server containing code and assets of Nexons project “P3” that they asked him to take down but he effectively refused and it *really looks like* he ran off with assets and code. Give it a watch. Kira is great at this stuff.
https://youtu.be/42SzJLadbHg?list=PL27KYsg0ANj1YskyapNmhwVX8UdbeCuvR
Also people think ironmace has won a prior case that nexon filed, they didnt, they dodged an INJUNCTION.
An injunction is essentially “hey stop doing that thing” and it failed on nexons part.
Ironmace filed an injunction against Nexon, saying “stop bullying me” and Nexon filed an injunction saying “They stole that game, stop selling it” and BOTH were shot down by a judge because of the ~~pending~~ lawsuit ~~that has yet to resolve~~, but in the above lawsuit, it looks like Nexon’s case is pretty damning.
>The court recognized that the defendants used or disclosed Nexon’s trade secrets with wrongful intent and determined that they leveraged P3’s core planning and key development information to create Dark and Darker. The court found that Ironmace’s rapid release of Dark and Darker, based on information containing P3 trade secrets, was a key piece of evidence. The court determined that the game’s sales were largely driven by its early market entry, achieved by significantly shortening the development period. Additionally, the absence of a documented planning phase for Dark and Darker in its early development, and the fact that certain P3 assets (e.g., torches, door systems) were purchased from the Unreal Asset Store, modified in terms of color temperature, saturation, brightness, and scaling, and then identically implemented in Dark and Darker, further supported the court’s decision.
TL;DR of the above:
1. Ironmace did not have early planning stage documents of their development and yet the game came out. They were *somehow unable to produce said documents*.
2. The game came out EXTREMELY fast after Ironmace’s departure from nexon.
3. Reused assets identically in multiple and concurrent different ways.
Ironmaces response:
>Ironmace, for its part, emphasized that the ruling confirmed Dark and Darker does not violate Nexon’s intellectual property rights. The company said it respects the court’s decision and will review the ruling before deciding whether to appeal.
No they stole code. They stole assets. You can see it in the above youtube video. There’s reciepts.
# Not to mention ironmace offices were raided by South Korean police, and prosecutors are looking into filing criminal charges AGAINST them for “alleged trade secret misappropriation, copyright violations, and breach of trust.”
Bit of devil’s advocate here:
So it doesnt matter if you owned dark and darker, the question is if it was legally allowed to exist to begin with, thats why companies are going to stop selling it/remove from your library. You should be mad at ironmace. Not epic or whoever else is gonna pull the content because IROMACE fenced you stolen product per a court order.
Edit: people are saying that they didnt copy anything, the court determined they did, while not outright doing copyright infringement, they DID copy and paste stuff. Please watch the lawsuit breakdown I linked. Kira will literally point out the stuff with ingamge screenshots of the comparison for you. He literally does the work for you.
If you don’t like that, and obviously nobody would.. get it from good old games for your future purchases. DRM free and you own it.
This is just the problem with everything going digital. We no longer buy games to own. We buy games to RENT.
At least you get a refund. Too much digital content is taken without such care.
It’s a free to play game and they’re refunding what extra stuff you bough, what exactly are you complaining about?
Meanwhile Steam : yeah we still host the files for the user who’s already had it in their library to play it.
got this too.. prety sure my Legendary status was a freebee from epic or twitch. I think i tired to play the game once and it kept crashing
And people crib about Steam “don’t do anything, still win”. Mfs, Steam did everything right with digital ownership, as much as they could.
That’s why we should collectively agree to only buy from Gog, the more users will be on Gog (and exclusively on Gog), the more games available there will be
I’ve never played the game. But the amount of YT shorts I’ve seen about the game, inc how it’s not really f2p, I suspect most won’t notice it’s gone
Having fun with your walled prisons people?
You shall be a pirate
It seems like it’s a free game, so it’s not like Epic is taking anything away that you paid for. They’re just no longer allowed to distribute it. And if you paid something, you’re getting a full refund. This seems pretty normal.
Well it’s not epic’s fault here though is it
Meanwhile steam allows to keep playing games that are now region locked. Or receive them as gifts. Or buying global keys. Or swapping the country for that to not be an issue anymore
Someone didn’t read the TOU
Why would anyone use Epic lmfao
If buying isn’t ownership then piracy isn’t theft.