They say that Soul killer only copies the personality onto a engram, but then is he just a simulation of who he was? Is Johnny actually Johnny? Or technically what a engram assumed his personality was? Then in that case why does he get closer to V if he’s just a simulation of a person? My head hurts.
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he is real bruh, his soul and mine got copied to he engram so its johny
Those are all very good questions.
Basically he is a “copy” per say. No it’s not his soul or anything more like a simulation/ ai that’s made to copy him and has his memory’s. He will still act like Johnny and such because he essentially is johnny.
Yeah, it’s a program. My thought is that program is off the rails due to being in a closed environment with V, so they get closer to each other.
That’s the question, ain’t it? What does it mean to be real? To be human?
Game has no idea what a soul is.
Game proceeds to pretend that Johnny SilverGPT is a soul, which it isn’t, it’s a fancy AI chatbot uploaded to your head.
Game complicates things even further by having the mystery monk say that there are two souls within you, but you are both at the same time. Misty sorta says the same thing.
Logical conclusion: V’s brain, not soul, is being replaced by the AI chatbot throughout the game, and depending on which ending you pick, you will either be the original V to some extent or V with their memories and personality replaced by the fancy AI chatbot.
Bomb Arasaka
He get closer to V cause he’s in her head. Biological stuff, live mind mix with encrypted data changes mind of the host (V) and Johnny who use mind. I think about it as a feedback loop.
Johnny isn’t real because the whole thing is fiction.
But in-universe, he’s absolutely a copy, while the real Johnny died at Arasaka Towers.
There are the existential questions that make me enjoy cyber punk as a genre lol.
He’s a copy of Johnny. To him, he’s Johnny and he has al his memories (albeit slightly altered at times) but the real Johnny is dead. Think of him like a digital clone/copy sort of
My current personal interpretation is that an engram is merely (very sophisticated) software, until it’s implanted onto a human brain.
So, Relic Johnny is *not* “real” but by the time his engram fully overwrites V’s personality (assuming certain steps aren’t taken to prevent that), then *that* Johnny *is* “real”…but is still not really the *same* Johnny that died in 2023.
I’d say not, but yes at the same time.
Here’s some food for thought: if you died but you were saved on Relic, and got “reinstalled”, would you, yourself, wake up? Or would the AI just take your body over and you’re left in the abyss forever?
I don’t think the Johnny we see is real. I think he’s an amalgamation of multiple people, likely Morgan Blackhand and Silverhand; or he is displaying who he wants others to see rather than just him. I really think more and more its Silverhand portraying who he wants you to see him as.
Nobody really knows and im not even sure Johnny knows. We know that Johnny Silverhand exists. But we have no way of knowing that the voice in Vs head is Johnny, a twisted copy, or an amalgamation of Johnny and V.
Towards the end of the game, Johnny says something along the lines of, “I’m the V that cares for her friends.”
We play though most of the game as post soulkiller V. Do we even know who V really was?
I played through the game as a corpo rat. The V in that universe was basically head of security who had agreed to do some really shady shit to get her to the position where she did. Furthermore, she is given another shady task which she eventually gets burned for. That’s where the game starts.
The V that cares for Judy. The one that gets mortified by Evelyn’s death. Does that sound like a person who has backstabbed her way to the top? We get a tiny glimpse of V pre-soul killer. We dont know what she had done in the past.
Unfortunately the only person who can really tell you that answer is Jackie, and he dies in the opening sequence.
The Johnny we meet in 2077 is a digitized, and heavily edited and corrupted, version of Johnny Silverhand, who died in Arasaka Tower. As far as we know, his personality is unchanged, but his memories definitely have been. Johnny gets closer to V because the chip is attempting to override V’s personality and memories with those of its version of Johnny. Yes, that does imply that there are other versions of Johnny out there, because there might be. While the personality would be similar if our Johnny’s is unedited, no other copies will have this Johnny’s experiences and therefore would not have a relationship with V.
Does this mean Engram Johnny is a person or not? Or if V is still a person after they get soulkilled by Alt? There’s not really a straight answer for that, but I’d argue that it just makes one person into multiple people, like Mitosis rather than Meiosis. After getting soulkilled, V can also be copied and edited, although we don’t have evidence that this happens more than once
The real question is with Johnny taking over Vs body
Is it still V, the same consciousness who just believes they are Jonny since their memories got overwritten, or is Vs consciousness dead and was fully replaced by a new one?
Cyperpunk is Fight Club and Johnny Silverhand is Tyler Durden. Tyler Durden is V. Even the moments you play as V are unreliable storytelling, you see what you wanna see and you hear what you wanna hear. It is not “Johnny” convincing you to do things, it is V doing things all on his own. Anders Hellman and Viktor both say chip makes you do things and you don’t even know what is right or wrong, entire game after ACT-1 is literally plot of Fight Club.
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Yes.
the johnny we know in the game isn’t the real johnny, “he” is basically an AI programmed to simulate johnny’s personality or to better say to trace and execute a personality pattern from the data acquired during the soulkilling process. The more the data is integral, the more human the construct will behave, the more damaged the data is, the more it would behave like something artificial or broken, like basically jackie’s engram.
A construct would achieve a true self-awareness if for some reason it would realize it isn’t a real person and would refuse to “play” the role it was programmed to play. Alt’s ghost achieved self awareness since she warns V she isn’t the once human alt.
We’re getting into Soma cloning style territory with this, but imo due to gameplay reasons and my disbelief in a soul (relevant bc that means an actual 100% copy/brainscan/enrgam whatever of someone’s consciousness and memories [if unedited] is the same, and just as good for the person in another body or even the same body as the first time they were traditionally alive), then Johnny is pretty much the same personality as his 2023 self, just with some tweaked (Arasaka?) or warped memories due to time. He is very very real, I mean the chip he’s on is killing V and about to replace V with that same personality/slightly edited memory version of Johnny. And by extension, the V that returns to their body (for their 6 months or maybe for hundreds of years considering their borgness and openended interpretations of some endings) is the same V that entered cyberspace at Mikoshi. “soul” or no soul, it’s V in that body. Alt can tell you “soulkiller is named after what it does” all she wants but that means little without a soul. i mean what is the difference between soul V and no soul V? They’re both NC legends capable of great feats
His memories were copied but not his consciousness. The relic/nanites/program is building an almost exact copy of Johnny’s brain using V’s tissues.
If V dies and meets the real Johnny in the afterlife (assuming there’s one) then Johnny will have no fucking idea who V is because they never met. Johnny even acknowledges this in game, wondering whether he’ll get an afterlife too like the real Johnny or if there’s nothing for clones. Will there be two Johnny Silverhand’s in heaven/hell?
Technically you could make like 500 relics with Johnny’s memories on them and just have a Johnnyception where different clones of him exist at the same time.
The real Johnny died. The engram’s perspective is that he went unconscious had 50 years of nothingness, then wakes up in V’s head. It’s his memories and personality and every possible quirk but it doesn’t have his soul. That’s why it’s soulkiller. It’s kind of the mirror of ego-liver
The engram of a veteran of a war, who lost his arm and likely suffered from PTSD initiated Cyberpsychosis. Turned Rockerboy and values his drug addled version of a rebel movement by manipulating those around him to follow his impulsive and irrational goals. Who has then been locked into solitary confinement in the place where it’s original self died for the last 54 years.
Whatever it is, you shouldn’t trust it at all.
What is “real”?
Live delamain reaction
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What is real?
Yeah, he isn’t a “person”, or Johnny, he is a copy of actual Johnny’s memories and personality that have been played with in mikoshi, and that are put together into the “Johnny” that V interacts with. How exactly the engram “puts him together” we don’t know, afaik, and what consequences that has on him. The chip was experimental, it was made for saburo to still rule arasaka after death, so of course it has the ability to remember, grow, change, etc.
All in all, I still think that the Johnny that V interacts with is a person. He can change and grow, and acts like one. But that’s just my opinion.
It’s that one meme where V meets the real Johnny in hell and he tries to be buddy with him and Johnny would be like “who the fuck are you”