Game runs poorly?
“Just upgrade your pcs you degenerates”
EiffelPower76
Okay, so just play games from the 80s
Elliove
I honestly don’t know any modern game with memory leak issue. Are there any cases to check?
1pcbetterthanxbox
Download more PC power or something idk lol -Todd Howard
Nithral1965
like Bethesda having even worse optimisation than ubisoft so just tells people to waste a thousand or more on a new pc cause they were too god damn lazy to do their jobs, when ubisoft does a better job at a pc port, that’s when you know you fucked up
BryAlrighty
Todd Howard vibes.. “Just upgrade your rig”
Dragonzaka
Developers then weren’t called lazy for reusing assets. People have called Nintendo lazy for making the depths an invert of the surface map despite how much else is down there.
DigitalPCDesigner
This is the reason I enjoy the forager game
designerlemons
Just download more rams
TempoRolls
Was going to say it is not even 1kb but.. 32*32 is 1024 so..
StuffedBrownEye
If developers today used the same clouds for grass then you’d just be bitching and moaning about that looking ugly instead of
Beryll_Starlight
Nah people nowadays would complain about reused assets
Blenderhead36
Developers in the ’80s: This is a major release, so we’re increasing your team to ten people and giving you ten months to make this. We expect about three hours of play time, but the rest is up to you.
Developers now: This is a major release, so we’re increasing your team to 500 and giving you four years to make this. We expect a minimum of 60 hours play time, an open world larger than Texas, photorealistic graphics at 4K60, physics, ray tracing, crafting, upgrade trees, a reactive story full of choices that have to be fully recorded with mocap and voice acting, combat that can be made punishingly difficult or so easy that it poses no challenge at all, somewhere around 50 puzzles, at least 200 side activities, a gear system with its own upgrades and unique models, and some kind of special sauce that will make this game stand out from the crowd. Any delays will require this game to break sales records to turn a profit, but you can probably pull this off if the C suite doesn’t change any of your ideas partway through and you’re willing to spend sixish months working 100 hour weeks. Management wishes you luck because if this game flops we’ll probably have to sell the studio to Microsoft or EA.
Domermac
Come on lol you think people would accept the same sprite for clouds and bushes these days?! People just like to complain. Some justified, some not.
TEENYcharmander
“It isn’t unoptimized, just use DLSS!”
scanguy25
The meme would have been better if they had Tod Howard with his quote about just needing to upgrade instead of the soyjack.
Holymuffns
Pc peasant meme
ThePiachu
Optimisation takes dev time and thus would increase the price of the game.
Heck, with inflation NES games would run you $30-$165…
matiegaming
“ it runs at a smooth 60fps 1080p medium settings on my 4090. I dont know what you are saying”
anthonyorm
Developers now: this game is 150gb?? bro just get a bigger ssd!
Sentmoraap
In that specific example, it did not save RAM, it was only to make the graphics fit in the 8KiB CHR ROM. To be more accurate, those 8KiB is a limitation of 256 tiles for sprites and 256 other tiles for the background. The bushes and clouds are part of backgrounds, not sprites. However SMB also has to make some savings to not exceed 256 sprite tiles.
Tiles use 2bpp so it saves 256 bytes.
Those data is not loaded in RAM. The PPU reads the CHR ROM as it outputs video but has memory for only 20 of those bytes (16 for a maximum of 8 sprites presents on that line + 4 for the background).
St0lf
~~developers~~ publishers
BluDYT
So what the game runs at only 20fps… Why do you think we added DLSS and Frame generation?
sh1boleth
Not true for just games, software dev in general. Memory back in the day was scarce, devs had to work with what they had.
These days memory is near infinite theoretically for a majority of applications.
L1n9y
Don’t blame developers, blame publishers. The Devs are just doing their jobs while the publisher forces them to work 100 hour weeks to meet deadlines.
teflonPrawn
I’m sure no one would complain at all if corners like that were cut in current AAA games.
DidItForButter
Developers aren’t the ones making these decisions to make the experience worse. Back in the day, devs made decisions which drove creative innovation, but this can no longer be done with the scale of current demand.
The issue largely lies on the audience, ie gamers.
The publishers hear our responses/praise/criticisms and either misinterpret them or beat them into the ground (examples: ray tracing at the forefront, killing performance and battle royals, respectively).
The publishers issue a laundry list of needs to the dev leads, who task their respective devs, who are under immense stress and have varying levels of experience from none to a handful of games. Let us not forget optimizations for multiple platforms, with PCs usually not optimized at all because they are the most variable and fixable with (expensive) hardware.
Starfield runs great on Xbox apparently, and it’s understandable seeing that A) it’s largest market and B) somewhere in the dev timeline, Microsoft acquired Bethesda.
It is hard to have it all. Graphics, story, features, innovation, and optimization/performance, they are like repelling magnets, which only money and time can solve; both in short supply and exponential during development.
BillyTheClub
Lol this is such revisionist history. All the old games are filled with bugs and shitty unoptimized code. They just had an insanely small amount of resources to work with so they had no choice but to spend time on clever memory tricks.
For example, there are hundreds of bugs in Pokemon gens 1 and 2. Stuff like gen one misses, many moves being programmed wrong, all special balls are basically broken in gen 2, it being almost trivial to edit ram, ect. Or in super Mario 64 all the lag is unnecessary. One guy optimized SM64 himself as a hobby project and it is amazing https://youtu.be/t_rzYnXEQlE?si=a3W1c6CWHa2YC3kq
DrBabbyFart
Gamers now: “WTF THEY REUSED AN ASSET??? LAZY DEVS”
monokoi
I miss those days. It was fascinating to see how coders would keep on reaching new heights on the same hardware.
31 Comments
Game runs poorly?
“Just upgrade your pcs you degenerates”
Okay, so just play games from the 80s
I honestly don’t know any modern game with memory leak issue. Are there any cases to check?
Download more PC power or something idk lol -Todd Howard
like Bethesda having even worse optimisation than ubisoft so just tells people to waste a thousand or more on a new pc cause they were too god damn lazy to do their jobs, when ubisoft does a better job at a pc port, that’s when you know you fucked up
Todd Howard vibes.. “Just upgrade your rig”
Developers then weren’t called lazy for reusing assets. People have called Nintendo lazy for making the depths an invert of the surface map despite how much else is down there.
This is the reason I enjoy the forager game
Just download more rams
Was going to say it is not even 1kb but.. 32*32 is 1024 so..
If developers today used the same clouds for grass then you’d just be bitching and moaning about that looking ugly instead of
Nah people nowadays would complain about reused assets
Developers in the ’80s: This is a major release, so we’re increasing your team to ten people and giving you ten months to make this. We expect about three hours of play time, but the rest is up to you.
Developers now: This is a major release, so we’re increasing your team to 500 and giving you four years to make this. We expect a minimum of 60 hours play time, an open world larger than Texas, photorealistic graphics at 4K60, physics, ray tracing, crafting, upgrade trees, a reactive story full of choices that have to be fully recorded with mocap and voice acting, combat that can be made punishingly difficult or so easy that it poses no challenge at all, somewhere around 50 puzzles, at least 200 side activities, a gear system with its own upgrades and unique models, and some kind of special sauce that will make this game stand out from the crowd. Any delays will require this game to break sales records to turn a profit, but you can probably pull this off if the C suite doesn’t change any of your ideas partway through and you’re willing to spend sixish months working 100 hour weeks. Management wishes you luck because if this game flops we’ll probably have to sell the studio to Microsoft or EA.
Come on lol you think people would accept the same sprite for clouds and bushes these days?! People just like to complain. Some justified, some not.
“It isn’t unoptimized, just use DLSS!”
The meme would have been better if they had Tod Howard with his quote about just needing to upgrade instead of the soyjack.
Pc peasant meme
Optimisation takes dev time and thus would increase the price of the game.
Heck, with inflation NES games would run you $30-$165…
“ it runs at a smooth 60fps 1080p medium settings on my 4090. I dont know what you are saying”
Developers now: this game is 150gb?? bro just get a bigger ssd!
In that specific example, it did not save RAM, it was only to make the graphics fit in the 8KiB CHR ROM. To be more accurate, those 8KiB is a limitation of 256 tiles for sprites and 256 other tiles for the background. The bushes and clouds are part of backgrounds, not sprites. However SMB also has to make some savings to not exceed 256 sprite tiles.
Tiles use 2bpp so it saves 256 bytes.
Those data is not loaded in RAM. The PPU reads the CHR ROM as it outputs video but has memory for only 20 of those bytes (16 for a maximum of 8 sprites presents on that line + 4 for the background).
~~developers~~ publishers
So what the game runs at only 20fps… Why do you think we added DLSS and Frame generation?
Not true for just games, software dev in general. Memory back in the day was scarce, devs had to work with what they had.
These days memory is near infinite theoretically for a majority of applications.
Don’t blame developers, blame publishers. The Devs are just doing their jobs while the publisher forces them to work 100 hour weeks to meet deadlines.
I’m sure no one would complain at all if corners like that were cut in current AAA games.
Developers aren’t the ones making these decisions to make the experience worse. Back in the day, devs made decisions which drove creative innovation, but this can no longer be done with the scale of current demand.
The issue largely lies on the audience, ie gamers.
The publishers hear our responses/praise/criticisms and either misinterpret them or beat them into the ground (examples: ray tracing at the forefront, killing performance and battle royals, respectively).
The publishers issue a laundry list of needs to the dev leads, who task their respective devs, who are under immense stress and have varying levels of experience from none to a handful of games. Let us not forget optimizations for multiple platforms, with PCs usually not optimized at all because they are the most variable and fixable with (expensive) hardware.
Starfield runs great on Xbox apparently, and it’s understandable seeing that A) it’s largest market and B) somewhere in the dev timeline, Microsoft acquired Bethesda.
It is hard to have it all. Graphics, story, features, innovation, and optimization/performance, they are like repelling magnets, which only money and time can solve; both in short supply and exponential during development.
Lol this is such revisionist history. All the old games are filled with bugs and shitty unoptimized code. They just had an insanely small amount of resources to work with so they had no choice but to spend time on clever memory tricks.
For example, there are hundreds of bugs in Pokemon gens 1 and 2. Stuff like gen one misses, many moves being programmed wrong, all special balls are basically broken in gen 2, it being almost trivial to edit ram, ect. Or in super Mario 64 all the lag is unnecessary. One guy optimized SM64 himself as a hobby project and it is amazing https://youtu.be/t_rzYnXEQlE?si=a3W1c6CWHa2YC3kq
Gamers now: “WTF THEY REUSED AN ASSET??? LAZY DEVS”
I miss those days. It was fascinating to see how coders would keep on reaching new heights on the same hardware.
“what do you mean you don’t like 200gb installs?”