No, he's not a bad character. Jackie will always be the best choom, and I will throw anyone into a jet engine that says otherwise lol.
But no, here's my hot take. I think the story would have been good, if not better, if the Relic was empty and had Soulkiller. And upon Jackie's death, he got copied as an engram. Then the events play out like normal, Jackie dies, the Dex shoots V.
BUUUUUUT, instead of Johnny on the chip, it's Jackie. Now, you have to deal with idea of either having to truly kill your friend, or give your body up to him. That would have hurt way more I think.
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Sounds pretty interesting but they definitely would need to develop the relationship with Jackie and V. Like let’s be honest, they did a pretty good job in making you love Jackie even thou you see and talk to him only in the prologue.
I don’t know, seems like a much easier choice of definitely giving your body to Jackie.
That would be perfect for a new game plus. But most games don’t do that with it anymore.
I think the game would have been a lot better had you had two options: take the relic and slot it yourself, or leave it with Jackie (and then perhaps kill Dex instead of getting shot by that tubby gonk). Then the quest isn’t about saving yourself, but your choom. Still high stakes, in my opinion, but totally different dynamic.
Honestly? I agree choom
The endings would have been so much more emotional and interesting
I appreciate Jackie but I didn’t get all emotional when he died. Jackie was extremely naive and the only reason V took the job with Dex, was because of Jackie. V’s character never trusted Dex, and you are told throughout the first Act that Dex isn’t the great fixer he presents himself as. Jackie was enamored by Dex and easily impressed by him. Ultimately, it was Jackie’s naivety that became his undoing and V’s commitment as a friend that let to theirs. One reason why in the story, friendship is such a key piece. Will V learn from Jackie and watch out for themself when a friend calls him for help, or is V going to run into battle for a friend even if it doesn’t make sense.
I do like the idea. It could’ve had more of an emotional impact
Jackie would never let you die for him, and every V I’ve ever played would die for Jackie. So this would just be a never ending circle of Jackie and V saying “you deserve to live more” until Jackie deletes himself as the only thing he can do.
He’s a boring character and I’m glad he dies in the first part of the game just so I don’t have to listen to him
Don’t think it would work. Johnny is a perfect FOIL to V.
Jackie was straight gonk who thought he could outgonk NC… V knew right away the Arasaka job was a red flag, but Jackie wouldn’t listen. Jackie was a super chill cool af dude.. But in the end, he had a gonk brain and that gonk brain got him killed…
I think Jackie would be OK if his death would save V
Misty pegs him.
I agree. I often wonder what turn the story would have taken had CDPR not signed a celebrity to participate in the game.
Heck, they could have not used the chip (as in either character) and based the game on betrayal by Dex (and even Bug if you consider the early trailer) and the 2 of you are trying to figure out everything, get revenge maybe, survive, discover a bigger story (maybe tie in to the Peralez thing). It would be an entirely different game, but not a bad one. I have faith they could have written a banger either way.
You get a little bit of Jackie coming back at the end. This is interesting but personally I wouldn’t give up Johnny to have Jackie there. I think him properly dying and being gone sort of becoming a legend sort of not is an important part in Vs development. It would also feel a little imbalanced because Jackie and V were more or less equals when he goes down after the heist. So if he were just dead and an Ingram along for the ride he wouldn’t be able to add much beyond banter. Silverhand comes in a fully formed legend of NC in his own right and offers a completely different perspective, often really challenging V’s way of thinking. It would have been cool to see more of Jackie though for sure
Its an interesting idea, but it takes a lot away from the ending when V starts out on the same page as the voice in his head. Johnny’s slow warming to V (and vice versa) is an underappreciated aspect of the story
But the whole story is that it’s Johnny. It would be a totally different game without Johnny.
Otherwise
I like that your relationship with Johnny can be bad or great and that affects your interactions with him especially in the endings. You would miss that element.
It would be a pretty interesting addition onto the story. I’m not sure how certain scene would play out too. Morality of it does increase on who gets the body
The only problem I have is that it changes the whole thing with the Soul killer program. It wasn’t meant to be an unlimited pokeball it’s a device that deletes the person and put the USB person in place.
What would be kinda funny is if both Johnny and Jackie are in it together. Probably playing out like the Piccolo, Nail, Kami trio in DBZ Abriged scenario.
I like that but it only works with more Jackie before the heist.
If they didn’t build your relationship with him through a compilation but rather had you play and experience night city from rags to riches before advancing the main story with the heist his death would have had such a great impact on you. I’m pretty sure that might have been the original idea because that fit the pacing of the story better as it’s a “point of no return” path. But that would mean that you wouldn’t meet Silverhand until about 2/3 into the game and because it’s Keanu Reeves they just couldn’t do that. But before I get hung; Story is still great, I love Jackie so don’t get me wrong, I just always felt he was such an important character which you never get to truly appreciate due to the pacing of the story.
Jackie’s cool and all but…he’s a gonk. He’s not particularly smart, he’s not strategic, and him being the engram would remove the VDBs, it would remove Alt Cunningham, it would give him a yes man instead of a foil, and it would remove Keanu from the game entirely…
Nah choom, this ain’t it.
recently got into a convo with someone i consider a choom but they said “V is a bland character” i tried to argue my case but then they said “The game should’ve followed david’s story”
First time play through I didn’t care for Jackie cause we only had one mission together and a montage that was supposed to be us connecting with him. I wished that they would give us a couple more missions together to get that connection instead of let’s get the bot then to the tower my chooms and then death.
I think it’s a fun idea but I don’t agree.
I think Jackie is perfect for the purpose he served; a good friend who gets fridged to advance V’s story and make V more interesting. I also think yes, this could definitely change the feeling of the ending, however, I don’t think for the better.
Johnny does several things that Jackie can’t:
1. Challenges V – Jackie isn’t smart or complex enough to really give V shit no matter what she does in the same way Johnny does. You could Smarten up Jackie but then he’s also not the dumb gonk that gets you into the shit show that is konpeki plaza.
2. Ties V into the original cyberpunk story quite as well – Johnny is a great choice because despite being a newcomer yourself, he ropes you into interactions and an established relationship with the original characters rogue, alt, kerry, etc. It’s hard to write these characters in as naturally and elegantly without this “in.”
3. Makes the endings equally bad/good depending on your perspective and complicates the endings deeply. You are kind of stuck being Jackie’s friend. With how complex Johnny is, you could totally see him as a close friend or a bitter enemy by the end, for any number of reasons. This means any ending could be interpreted as the good/bad ending. Its more complicated and bittersweet no matter what you choose. If your choom Jackie is there, there’s a clear selfless and a clear selfish ending.
I mean, it’s an interesting concept, but at the same time … easily solved? Either one would want the other to live (probably) and there’s no way that Jackie would ever wanna take over and kill V in the process.
Part of what makes the Johnny & V bit interesting is that they both start out wanting their own thing. They don’t want to cooperate, but have to learn to. It’s a completely different dynamic than between 2 best buds.
I love jackie but I think he’d quickly become grating if you spent the 40-80 hour runtime with him in your head.
I also think Johnny is a far more interesting, flawed, and chaotic character that fits many playstyles. Johnny has connection to Alt that Jackie doesn’t have.
It would also remove the emotional punch of Jackie’s death if he gets resurrected digitally in your head and can commentate on his death and tell you his unspoken words to his family and friends.
Maybe if the story involved darker sides of Jackie and conflict that make interesting choices and paths to how you wanna go through it.
Otherwise it’s not really interesting because Jackie is already lovable and we would do anything for him.
Im sorry but jackies story feels so forced that it would ruin the game for me. The game basically just tells you you are best buds and sets up a whole bunch of very obvious foreshadowing that hes going to die. Hes a fun character but in no way could he replace johnny.
This is a really smart choice to be honest. I like this
This is an amazing idea. Buuuut with Johnny, he is often argumentative and makes you think about angles that you wouldn’t have before. He is also the main reason you go to/know about Mikoshi. Plus you wouldn’t know Alt, or really any other of Johnny’s friends
Buddy just wanna pipe misty
I dont understand this sub’s obsession with Jackie, he’s a solid intro friend character but you would miss the entire point if the storyline and all of the political undertones had it been him over Johnny lol
could have been interesting for sure. johnny silverhand is such a fucking good character though, i would have hated to miss out on that
The only problem with Jackie is the lack of time with Jackie. The Heist is an amazing quest and should have more build up until that point of the game. Either as solo with him or before the beginning of the life path.
Idk what I’m missing but why/how do most of the player base have such huge attachment to Jackie before his death? Maybe i wasn’t immersed or interacted with him enough but it didn’t seem like he was there long enough for all the tears and tribute posts.
That twist is actually pretty smart. If they ever thought about it, they might’ve quickly discarded that idea just so that they can have Keanu to be a more prominent character in the main story. Since.. you know they probably had to pay him pretty well. On the other hand i don’t find Jackie as likable as many people do. So in order for this to work, i would want a different/ better written character.
The relationship was weird af, we never get to bond with Jackie.
That’s actually a really good idea.
him being an engram could potentially give him a character arc in which he becomes more selfish thus making a conflict with V and making him a more interesting character overall expanding on his desire to be a legend even if he has to sacrifice V (although for all of this to work the first act would have to be different that the one we have)
but i still think johnny is a better option since he ties V up with arasaka and Alt.
and i really like his dynamic with V in which at the beggining he only sees in V a second chance at destroy arasaka but if you want you can gradually become the only friend that he has
that moment when we go to the junkyard johnny’s buried and we see him sad is one of my favorite moments in the game, kinda makes me understand his attitude in the game and is an important moment in V’s relationship with him
Jackie got killed off way sooner into the story that I never really cared for him, so your take is really interesting.
Anyone that likes Jackie is just the type of person that would be friends with him. If you don’t like Jackie then you wouldn’t have been friends with him. But the game doesn’t give you the choice to not be friends with Jackie, so it forces you to be around someone you don’t like and that just makes all the flaws and bits certain people don’t like about Jackie stand out even more.
I was a little surprised that at least some form of Jackie wasn’t on the chip at all though.
Man, just imagine how sad it would be to sit in his ofrenda and watch him react to everyone’s heartfelt speeches and regretting his decision of trying to reach for that fame at the cost of his life.
But yeah, although Jackie in the chip would actually give us more of a glimpse of V’s time with him pre-heist and his time with his abusive father and adventures with his old gang, Silverhand’s more unique background does introduce a more special experience.
I think the story would have been better is Jackies death was later in the story. Could have had V not really acting hinself sometomes due to the relic and Jackie just being the pal that he is and being there for V. Or something. I still think his death happened too quick. Would have been to have gotten to know his character a bit more.
Nahh ….Jhonny-V character development is much more emotional than Jackie-V. Don’t get me wrong, Jackie is my fav choom but we already connected with that character and they had great chemistry but seeing Jhonny’s aggression towards V turns into care and eventually telling V that he wouldn’t mind erasing himself from V is very emotional to say the least.
Good sequel idea
Poop take on fart