Halves just feel over so quickly.. there’s not enough rounds to adapt, not enough rounds to condition the enemy team, no time to try out a bunch of different things… so having more rounds within the same game duration would be better imo
DeadmemeememdaeD
no
XvS_W4rri0r
Yes fuck mr12
deefop
I mean yeah, 100%.
1:45 with 35 second bomb timer was it for the majority of 1.6, if memory serves. It was totally fine.
Valve is the one that changed it to like 2 minutes/45 second bomb timer with csgo initially, then they “compromised” with 1:55/40.
Tildaend
Can someone explain to me why there’s no middle ground between MR12 and MR15? Like why not just a minor adjustment to MR13? The possibility of two more gun rounds would feel substantially better while also getting the benefits of shorter games as compared to CSGO. Am I missing something?
bot_taz
i did not understand the switch back to MR12 in the 1st place, we did not get BO5 major final, we still have BO1 in the major, what was the point of this all?
ChaoticFlameZz
No. Just literally remove the 1400 loss bonus and cut the kit price in half.
Fun_Philosopher_2535
Absolutely, Adding back MR15 but reducing the round timer to 1:45 (plus 15 seconds of freeze time) will make it only 6 minutes longer than the current MR12’s maximum
aimy99
Considering that nothing ever happens until the last 30 seconds anyway, sure, why not?
I honestly just kinda want MR15 back because it’s easier to process mentally. 8 and 16 are powers of 2, which are *incredibly* common in the tech space. I’m not a baker, I don’t fuck with dozens.
SyntaxHabibi
Yes, fuck mr12
Mr_Legendary_Society
Yes , people love to auto-disagree with Thorin , but MR12 is brainrot zoomer garbage
jonajon91
Absolutely. Gut the downtime between rounds and timeouts too, dead space for viewership.
DuumiS
yes, mr12 doesn’t give you enough time to adapt to the opponents, coordinate with teammates, try different setups. a single mistake or lost round now has a way bigger impact, with the chance to cost the whole match. also since random lobbies tend to make mistakes more often, its even more frustrating. pistol round have too much impact and if you lose both then your chance to win the match are even lower. also as a main awp, I dislike mr12 even more since the chances to buy and use the awp compared to csgo are lower. If my team is losing, its very difficult to buy an awp, and if i play soloq its even worse since i cant get randoms to save for awp, and I can no longer take risky peeks without the chance of throwing the match.
schnoodle7
Having nearly 1 hour maps on average is not a good viewer experience
KaNesDeath
No.
2016 is when coherent utility stacking entered the Pro meta leading to increased round/game length. Along with Pro teams treating maps more tactically with controlling/taking specific space while studying opponents commonly played areas. Jumpthrows and even more advanced utility usage slowly became part of the meta over the next two years. CT side saving also became more common for economy management.
Pre-2016 CS was basically deathmatch by todays standards.
Stock-Maize-2862
The rounds themselves will become more random and half buys would be even more meta.
Cero_Kurn
35s bomb?
Heeeeeellllll no
Doomestos1
I prefer MR12 and shorter matches both as a player and as a viewer.
woodzopwns
MR12 makes the economy feel less important, and the long smoke timers are just SO boring. If a smoke goes down after the plant I basically can’t go onto site, I need an HE (unlikely if I’m retaking) or a really good flash and luck for the 50/50 peek. I’d rather the smokes were shorter, rounds shorter, bomb timer the same. Would be good for spectating too in my eyes, more high intensity timers ticking down.
baordog
Not unless you find a way to punish the saving meta. Honestly makes matches sleepy in the current form.
ZehDaMangah
Fuck MR12 from the bottom of my heart.
And fuck 20 second freezetimes and even 15 second freezetimes. Make it 12 and that’s good enough.
Also fuck 7 second post round-timers, shorten that to 5.
Also fuck 1:55 round times. Make it 1:50.
And while we’re at it, FUCK these long-ass duration smokes and molotovs and flashes. Shave them off about 5% of their duration.
O_gr
Either find a proper solution to the economy issue or return to MR15. it’s not that hard valve…
If game length is that much of an issue because everyone is too brainrotted to watch a match for longer than 5 min without their phone, then that’s not CSs problem.
Short rounds like it used to be in the early days of GO or even shorter if you want to go back to 1.6 length are both fine compromises to me. One is just more extreme. Players will adapt with more rounds being available it will all even out.
Edit: And with smoke breaking and spraying opening up a hole in the smoke, now things you can doa people respect them less so rounds than to turn into a snooze fest.
AstronomerStandard
It’s really alright, if the major is a bo5. Burn the grand finalists out of energy, so we can get some chaotic sloppy ass CS, a game 5 overtime is peak cinema, guaranteed to be a banger
TheSketeDavidson
Current format is a good length for viewing purposes.
grandpapotato
I think it was too long before im ngl.
Not saying mr12 is perfect, just that extra long finals were painful before.
GTS250
Absolutely not. MR12 is good, the economy is supposed to be tight otherwise why have an economy to worry about?, y’all are mad because the best team in the world won and the subreddit had to make up a reason why that’s unfair.
Subject_Slide3424
Surprised nobody remembers CGS rules of MR9, $16k start money and 1:25 rounds, that was absolutely awful
Nh66532
Bring back MR15 and bring back short matches
GeronimoMoles
Shorter smokes doesn’t just make the rounds shorter, it also makes them less useful as a ct. They don’t allow your team time to rotate if they’re shorter.
ProffesionalPeach
yes
eebro
35 second bomb is fking brutal
cvbnm779
Retakes would be impossible again
Pokefreaker-san
my issue with MR12 is just how predictable the game is at some point. if a team doesnt win on their first full buy round then the game most likely would spiral out of control for the losing team. a game that ended 13-8 feels more stompy than it should be.
imo they need to improve the comeback economy, give more losing team tools to crawl back into the game. when a losing team just won a round then lose the current round, their economy would end up fked and needed to eco again, i think that’s pretty fked up for the team playing from behind
Maci0x
Economy might be the problem here. If you lose pistol you most likely start 3-0 (if you lose after pistol its most likely 1-2). Economy is hard for CT and having bad money situation usually affects 2-3 rounds. Since we have MR12 games feel less exciting. I think MR12/MR15 is not the main problem here. Economy needs some changes, maybe defuse to $200, flatten losing and winning earnings, and get both m4s to $2750.
NoNeckNelson
“Games have been longer ever since the round timer increased” who’da thunk it?
Fley
First time watching a CS tournament since CSGO. I wasn’t sure if it’s because I watch league so often or if I haven’t played CS in so long but I couldn’t believe how short the games / series were. Everything felt less enjoyable
notsarge
My only gripe is the CT economy. Winning pistol then to get fkd by mac10s the following round, feels like it takes all half to come back from.
Sprigganz
I have a kid now. Finding time to play is easier with mr12 Fitting a game in while the kids having a nap or having one game after she goes to bed is just easier
MisterPinkCS
The games now are over way too quickly playing and watching. Also the amount of saving is just making the viewing experience so annoying and just flat out boring. The lack of safety rounds that teams had that meant they could could go for risky retakes has been erased as each round is so much more impactful to the scores means 9/10 times if a site is taken the CTs don’t even bother moving at all and just save instantly sometimes even if they have the same amount of players alive as the Ts since they are too scared to lose their weapons since the economy just isn’t geared correctly for MR12 games. They really should just go back to MR15. The BO3 grand final just doesn’t feel right on MR12, just felt like it was over too quickly. BO3 is good for MR15 and BO5 good for MR12 since you are getting at least 3 maps but imo they should have never changed it.
Lazy_Attempt_1967
I have to say that current eco in CS2 is pretty insane to me. MR12 works a lot better in valorant. Why? You save your unused utility. Head armor isnt as crucial as it’s only 125 -> 150hp and against 4x bodyshots or 1x hs from vandal it makes no difference also there is no aim punch mechanic linked to armor.
ewankobkt
No
Just balance the economy. Shorter smoke times? It will be useless. I think just make the utility cheaper is the option here. I understand that they need to make the game time shorter for players and watchers. Valorant didn’t have much problems with this because when the player dies and hasn’t used their utility, they don’t need to re-buy them. Another thing is the loss bonus. They need to get rid of 1400 and just 1900 at the starting point and make 3400 as the max loss bonus or tweak it to not get over the win bonus.
awakendjesus
Make MR15 great again.
Xacktastic
Nah, mr12 is better in every way. Just buff CT eco a tiny amount and we good.
MythoclastBM
I’m really not sure what people think MR12 has to do with it. People like to yap that MR12 has somehow caused the CT economy to be awful. It’s been like this for a long time, and I can’t stress this enough: *it used to be a lot worse*.
These charts don’t tell a whole lot. It’s a very small sample size of games from an even smaller sample size of tournaments. The most recent major playoffs in total was like 15 games. 2016 was also around the time that the prize pool was increased from $250,000 to $1,000,000. I’m certain there is no coincidence there.
I prefer MR12 because it doesn’t feel like the game has overstayed its welcome very often. Close games feel close, not so close games are over with quickly. Increase the minimum loss bonus to 1900 holy fuck shits miserable.
imbakinacake
I like mr12 but I still think the economy needs tweaking.
If they did shorter mr15 I would be open to it i guess.
47 Comments
Absolutely not
Yes
Halves just feel over so quickly.. there’s not enough rounds to adapt, not enough rounds to condition the enemy team, no time to try out a bunch of different things… so having more rounds within the same game duration would be better imo
no
Yes fuck mr12
I mean yeah, 100%.
1:45 with 35 second bomb timer was it for the majority of 1.6, if memory serves. It was totally fine.
Valve is the one that changed it to like 2 minutes/45 second bomb timer with csgo initially, then they “compromised” with 1:55/40.
Can someone explain to me why there’s no middle ground between MR12 and MR15? Like why not just a minor adjustment to MR13? The possibility of two more gun rounds would feel substantially better while also getting the benefits of shorter games as compared to CSGO. Am I missing something?
i did not understand the switch back to MR12 in the 1st place, we did not get BO5 major final, we still have BO1 in the major, what was the point of this all?
No. Just literally remove the 1400 loss bonus and cut the kit price in half.
Absolutely, Adding back MR15 but reducing the round timer to 1:45 (plus 15 seconds of freeze time) will make it only 6 minutes longer than the current MR12’s maximum
Considering that nothing ever happens until the last 30 seconds anyway, sure, why not?
I honestly just kinda want MR15 back because it’s easier to process mentally. 8 and 16 are powers of 2, which are *incredibly* common in the tech space. I’m not a baker, I don’t fuck with dozens.
Yes, fuck mr12
Yes , people love to auto-disagree with Thorin , but MR12 is brainrot zoomer garbage
Absolutely. Gut the downtime between rounds and timeouts too, dead space for viewership.
yes, mr12 doesn’t give you enough time to adapt to the opponents, coordinate with teammates, try different setups. a single mistake or lost round now has a way bigger impact, with the chance to cost the whole match. also since random lobbies tend to make mistakes more often, its even more frustrating. pistol round have too much impact and if you lose both then your chance to win the match are even lower. also as a main awp, I dislike mr12 even more since the chances to buy and use the awp compared to csgo are lower. If my team is losing, its very difficult to buy an awp, and if i play soloq its even worse since i cant get randoms to save for awp, and I can no longer take risky peeks without the chance of throwing the match.
Having nearly 1 hour maps on average is not a good viewer experience
No.
2016 is when coherent utility stacking entered the Pro meta leading to increased round/game length. Along with Pro teams treating maps more tactically with controlling/taking specific space while studying opponents commonly played areas. Jumpthrows and even more advanced utility usage slowly became part of the meta over the next two years. CT side saving also became more common for economy management.
Pre-2016 CS was basically deathmatch by todays standards.
The rounds themselves will become more random and half buys would be even more meta.
35s bomb?
Heeeeeellllll no
I prefer MR12 and shorter matches both as a player and as a viewer.
MR12 makes the economy feel less important, and the long smoke timers are just SO boring. If a smoke goes down after the plant I basically can’t go onto site, I need an HE (unlikely if I’m retaking) or a really good flash and luck for the 50/50 peek. I’d rather the smokes were shorter, rounds shorter, bomb timer the same. Would be good for spectating too in my eyes, more high intensity timers ticking down.
Not unless you find a way to punish the saving meta. Honestly makes matches sleepy in the current form.
Fuck MR12 from the bottom of my heart.
And fuck 20 second freezetimes and even 15 second freezetimes. Make it 12 and that’s good enough.
Also fuck 7 second post round-timers, shorten that to 5.
Also fuck 1:55 round times. Make it 1:50.
And while we’re at it, FUCK these long-ass duration smokes and molotovs and flashes. Shave them off about 5% of their duration.
Either find a proper solution to the economy issue or return to MR15. it’s not that hard valve…
If game length is that much of an issue because everyone is too brainrotted to watch a match for longer than 5 min without their phone, then that’s not CSs problem.
Short rounds like it used to be in the early days of GO or even shorter if you want to go back to 1.6 length are both fine compromises to me. One is just more extreme. Players will adapt with more rounds being available it will all even out.
Edit: And with smoke breaking and spraying opening up a hole in the smoke, now things you can doa people respect them less so rounds than to turn into a snooze fest.
It’s really alright, if the major is a bo5. Burn the grand finalists out of energy, so we can get some chaotic sloppy ass CS, a game 5 overtime is peak cinema, guaranteed to be a banger
Current format is a good length for viewing purposes.
I think it was too long before im ngl.
Not saying mr12 is perfect, just that extra long finals were painful before.
Absolutely not. MR12 is good, the economy is supposed to be tight otherwise why have an economy to worry about?, y’all are mad because the best team in the world won and the subreddit had to make up a reason why that’s unfair.
Surprised nobody remembers CGS rules of MR9, $16k start money and 1:25 rounds, that was absolutely awful
Bring back MR15 and bring back short matches
Shorter smokes doesn’t just make the rounds shorter, it also makes them less useful as a ct. They don’t allow your team time to rotate if they’re shorter.
yes
35 second bomb is fking brutal
Retakes would be impossible again
my issue with MR12 is just how predictable the game is at some point. if a team doesnt win on their first full buy round then the game most likely would spiral out of control for the losing team. a game that ended 13-8 feels more stompy than it should be.
imo they need to improve the comeback economy, give more losing team tools to crawl back into the game. when a losing team just won a round then lose the current round, their economy would end up fked and needed to eco again, i think that’s pretty fked up for the team playing from behind
Economy might be the problem here. If you lose pistol you most likely start 3-0 (if you lose after pistol its most likely 1-2). Economy is hard for CT and having bad money situation usually affects 2-3 rounds. Since we have MR12 games feel less exciting. I think MR12/MR15 is not the main problem here. Economy needs some changes, maybe defuse to $200, flatten losing and winning earnings, and get both m4s to $2750.
“Games have been longer ever since the round timer increased” who’da thunk it?
First time watching a CS tournament since CSGO. I wasn’t sure if it’s because I watch league so often or if I haven’t played CS in so long but I couldn’t believe how short the games / series were. Everything felt less enjoyable
My only gripe is the CT economy. Winning pistol then to get fkd by mac10s the following round, feels like it takes all half to come back from.
I have a kid now. Finding time to play is easier with mr12 Fitting a game in while the kids having a nap or having one game after she goes to bed is just easier
The games now are over way too quickly playing and watching. Also the amount of saving is just making the viewing experience so annoying and just flat out boring. The lack of safety rounds that teams had that meant they could could go for risky retakes has been erased as each round is so much more impactful to the scores means 9/10 times if a site is taken the CTs don’t even bother moving at all and just save instantly sometimes even if they have the same amount of players alive as the Ts since they are too scared to lose their weapons since the economy just isn’t geared correctly for MR12 games. They really should just go back to MR15. The BO3 grand final just doesn’t feel right on MR12, just felt like it was over too quickly. BO3 is good for MR15 and BO5 good for MR12 since you are getting at least 3 maps but imo they should have never changed it.
I have to say that current eco in CS2 is pretty insane to me. MR12 works a lot better in valorant. Why? You save your unused utility. Head armor isnt as crucial as it’s only 125 -> 150hp and against 4x bodyshots or 1x hs from vandal it makes no difference also there is no aim punch mechanic linked to armor.
No
Just balance the economy. Shorter smoke times? It will be useless. I think just make the utility cheaper is the option here. I understand that they need to make the game time shorter for players and watchers. Valorant didn’t have much problems with this because when the player dies and hasn’t used their utility, they don’t need to re-buy them. Another thing is the loss bonus. They need to get rid of 1400 and just 1900 at the starting point and make 3400 as the max loss bonus or tweak it to not get over the win bonus.
Make MR15 great again.
Nah, mr12 is better in every way. Just buff CT eco a tiny amount and we good.
I’m really not sure what people think MR12 has to do with it. People like to yap that MR12 has somehow caused the CT economy to be awful. It’s been like this for a long time, and I can’t stress this enough: *it used to be a lot worse*.
These charts don’t tell a whole lot. It’s a very small sample size of games from an even smaller sample size of tournaments. The most recent major playoffs in total was like 15 games. 2016 was also around the time that the prize pool was increased from $250,000 to $1,000,000. I’m certain there is no coincidence there.
I prefer MR12 because it doesn’t feel like the game has overstayed its welcome very often. Close games feel close, not so close games are over with quickly. Increase the minimum loss bonus to 1900 holy fuck shits miserable.
I like mr12 but I still think the economy needs tweaking.
If they did shorter mr15 I would be open to it i guess.