In your estimation, where does "Tier 1" become "Tier 1.5" (if you use this term), and then finally "Tier 2?"
This is a contentious (and sometimes annoying) debate, usually tinged with whatever agenda the person commenting has.
For instance some Redditors are calling the ongoing Bucharest a "Tier 1.5-2" event, despite the #4, #6, #7, #8, and #9 teams attending. Surely by the official definition, this is a Tier 1 event, albeit obviously not quite on the level of Majors, Blast, Kato, etc. — just because of the marked absence of the very best few teams.
I always say (based on how I hear pros and analysts talk) that Tier 1 is roughly the top 15-20 teams, tier 1.5 begins around there, and then Tier 2 are more local teams that frequent online cups and rarely make S-tier tournaments (which feature at least some top 10 teams).
Just my $0.02.
Thoughts?
23 Comments
probably between faze and falcons
Tier 1 : Vitality Mouz Spirit
Tier 2 : Everyone else
Vitality is in tier 0 atm. Down to Faze is T1. T2 after that
I consider the Top Tier to be any team that has the potential to win a major, regardless of their prior history. On this list, I think #1-5 can win the next major. #6-10 can perform, but they’re not winning (outside of some FaZe bullshit). Also, I think 1-5 can should should stick with their current rosters and just tighten up. 6-10 are missing pieces to make a winning team.
I have no intentional bias. I have no favorite team. Vitality and Spirit are clear #1 and #2 right now.
Also, on the current HLTV list, I think I draw the line at #22: Heroic, Complexity, BIG are Tier-1 teams. BetBoom, Tyloo, and Wildcard are Tier-2.
I would say any teams that at least consistently make playoffs at S tier events are tier 1
tier 1: teams that are likely to win tournaments or consistently make deep runs in tournaments featuring the rest of the top teams (spirit, vita)
tier 1.5: teams that can upset a big team, are consistently decent but are very unlikely to win a tournament that features top teams (mongolz, falcons)
tier 2: teams where making playoffs in a tournament with top teams is considered good enough (gamerlegion, 3dmax)
I use two different criteria.
First is just broad on who competes in what tiered event. Other is when a clear #1 team exists they are tier 1. Few teams that reguraly challenge them in grand final yet lose are tier 2. Rest are tier 3 and beyond.
Top20 with some teams here and there who could also be there.
If the teams are often playing tier 1 events I consider them tier 1, simple as that.
EDIT: I will never consider just the best 2-3 teams (or top 5) in the world Tier 1, that doesn’t make sense to me, they are just Tier 1 teams that are better than them other Tier 1 teams.
there’s two different conversations here.
first, there’s the more “official” definition of tier 1, which pretty much always includes everyone in the top 10 and often a good chunk of ranks 10-20. the teams that make a tournament “S tier” if they attend. this is the definition you’re talking about, and we more or less agree.
then there’s the more fun conversation, which is … where do we, subjectively, put the teams if we’re doing a “tier list” type thing like a youtuber?
by this second definition, i’d put Vitality, Spirit, and maaaaaaaybe MOUZ in S tier. NaVi, Aurora, and maaaaybe G2 and Mongolz in A tier. FaZe, Falcons, maybe VP and Liquid in B tier. C tier generally would be the rest of the top 20 ish, D tier the rest of the top 30 ish. of course, the HLTV rankings aren’t perfect, and sometimes teams are ranked lower than they should be. but mostly that’s how it be for me.
S tier = good bet to win the event
Tier 1 = good bet for playoffs (aka top 6-8)
Tier 2 = good bet for group stage (aka 12-16)
Tier 3 = qualifier
Tier 4 = anything worse than that
Teams that are more consistent are more solidly in their tier, so a team that might make 1/3 playoffs could be called tier 1.5 if you wanted.
Also talking about LANs with all the best teams, so if you make a bunch of playoff at teams with 1 top 5 team you can still be tier 2.
This is just my opinion 🙂
Tier 1 to me includes all teams that consistently make playoffs
So we could say top 10
But then among tier 1, you definitely have categories, from playoff teams such as NaVi, G2, Aurora, Mongolz etc to tournament contenders like the current top 3
S Tier are teams that should either run deep or win tourneys. At this time that’s top 3. So Vitality, Spirit & Mouz.
A Tier are teams that usually make playoffs but are usually not going to win. I’d say that extends to Top 10 at the moment with teams like The MongolZ & Aurora especially fitting the bill, but also teams with lots of experience facing form slumps like FaZe, G2 & Na’Vi.
B Tier are teams will often bomb out of the group stages with the occasional run to playoffs. That would roughly correlate to Top 30 at the moment and is filled with up and coming challenger teams, most top teams of NA & Asia, as well as teams that are mired in rebuilds and other long term performance issues.
Top 4 tier 1
Tier 2 below that
I’ve watched all the big tournaments this year. Top 8 teams in the ranking are Tier 1
I’m not really a fan of throwing all the top dogs to different tiers the cs world is bigger than just S tier events so for me its:
Tier 1 – top 25
Tier 2 – top 26-50
Tier 3 – anything below top 51 but still some international presence
Tier 4 – local tournament farmers
I agree with your assessment. There doesn’t seem to be a strong consensus defining the tiers but it makes sense what you said about rank 15-20 being the tier 1.5 zone and anything below is tier 2. Where do you consider Tier 3 to start?
Liquipedia is qualifying it as an S tier event so I’ll go with that. S tier being tier 1. I’d argue that having 2 or more top 10 teams makes it a tier 1 event.
But I more or less agree with your idea of what tier 1/1.5/2 is.
Your definition is correct. The people saying T1 are top 3-5 are thinking of tier lists and should be using S tier, A tier, etc.
The T1/T2 divide is like being in the premier league or whatever is below that in football. Teams going to nearly all ESL/Blast/PGL events are T1. The ones that hang out in CCT and similar are T2.
If you ask me generally I’d say top 10 been tier 1 where most of them will appear in playoffs constantly,
But if you are asking right now, I’d say Vitality/mouz/spirit t1,
I feel like tier 1 tends to always be the dominant teams. Like usually top 10. I don’t love that cs works this way right now, but it is what it is for an industry where orgs only make real money when they win. Different rosters shuffle in and out. that being said, there is plenty of room for upsets, and I believe if a “tier 1” teams are at an event, the event is tier 1. because this will lead to “tier 1.5” teams to battle out to face the best teams, which can often be unpredictable matches.
CS is super fun to watch, and sometimes teams will dominate for a long time. I feel like it is very easy to tweak a 5 man roster as opposed to a larger team such as american football, but even then, the number one team the chiefs got dookied on in the national championship. Upsets are more fun, and seeing new rosters find form is fun. I have gone off topic but I feel the HLTV ranking points are misleading, any of these rosters might pop off, but those who are so far ahead in ranking will probably have good results and make it a tier 1
Tier 0 – finalist and semi finalist* of the tournament
Tier 1 – top 24
Tier 2 – cct, challenger, epl etc
Tier 3 – everyone else
top 20 = t1
top 40 = t1.5
top 80 = t2
top 100 = t2.5
top 100+ = t3
FPL stack = t4
1-3 t1
4-9 t1.5ish could get ‘A’ map off the top 3 or a lucky bo1 win if lucky
10-18 t2
The rest who the fuck cares lmao.