Back at the end of March, PC Gamer got a quote from a dev who basically blasted the idea of forever games. “For a long time, many games have been focused on creating these infinitely replayable, high-retention, forever experiences,” Night Signal’s Nick Lives said. “Either their magic works on you and you actually play them forever until you die, or else the spell wears off and your last impression is getting burned out. I think a bunch of players are gradually warming up to the idea of self-contained, satisfying one-off experiences that can leave you on a high note.”
Lives wasn’t expressly talking about MMOs, and in fact PC Gamer used a pic from Starfield and infers that he’s talking about open world RPGs, but you could certainly apply his quote to our lil corner of the games industry, which seems weird to me because in the last year or so, multiple studios, from Blizzard and Jagex to Hypixel, have all said they specifically want to make forever games and forever homes.
Let’s talk about it for this week’s Massively Overthinking. Are you looking for a forever game? Have you already found it? Are other people looking for one too, or is Lives right that people no longer want that? Or do you think the concept itself is problematic?
Ben Griggs (@braxwolf): I’m not sure my definition of “forever game” aligns with the rest of the industry. I consider Skyrim a forever game. It’s huge, it has replay appeal, and the mod scene has gotten so mature and sophisticated that each playthrough could be a completely different game. Studio executives, on the other hand, seem to define “forever game” as one that will make money forever. I have less interest in that kind of forever game because quality and experience aren’t always taken into consideration.
Brianna Royce (@nbrianna.bsky.social, blog): I think that for single-player games, this is more like developer wishful thinking; sprawling open world RPGs are expensive and time-consuming to make well, and it’s cheaper to make other things. This feels like we’re being told what we want by the people who want to sell us something else.
But yeah, not only do I still want forever home MMOs, I still want big epic open world RPGs. Like, the day Bethsoft puts up Elder Scrolls VI preorders, I will fork over all the money. But I also think that definition of forever game – that we play it until we die or we burn out – isn’t really reflective of my reality either. I didn’t play Morrowind or Skyrim forever, but I played for years, and I’ll probably be back again, and I think very fondly on them. “Forever” doesn’t have to be literal. It’s fine, just say you want to make shorter, cheaper games.
Chris Neal (@wolfyseyes.bsky.social, blog): I think the concept doesn’t work for MMORPG fans because we want to have a nice, long, forever place to hang out in. Or even a couple of them. Even if there are many of us who are kind of aging out of the time commitments for this genre, though that can be solved with the right design too.
In the wider gaming sphere, though, yes, this is absolutely a problem that’s powered by a whole bunch of factors, chief among them being studios, execs, and investors who want to find the next money printer as fast as possible as well as the massive cost of making games nowadays. It really does feel like a square peg round hole situation in that sense.
Personally? I want a forever game. I want new MMORPGs too, don’t get me wrong, but I’m also happy to call a couple of titles home and am patient enough to grant them the grace to expand to make it happen.
Justin Olivetti (@Sypster, blog): I’m open to being swept away into a new MMO love, but at this point in my life and looking at the upcoming field, I’m guessing that I’m already in the MMORPGs I’ll be playing for the rest of my life — namely, LOTRO and World of Warcraft. And as long as they both continue to get content, I’m 100% fine with that. I love them both and have enjoyed them for decades now. I hope that never changes.
Sam Kash (@samkash@mastodon.social): I still haven’t found my forever game, but I still look at the Guild Wars series as home. It’s the only games that I stayed with for year after year after year. At least up until I did get burned out. It’s been years since I’ve had a home MMO, but even after all these years, I still look towards it. Eventually I’ll go back to it.
In the meantime, I’m looking for another game to catch my attention that much. I haven’t found it, but it isn’t for a lack of wanting a game that sticks that good with me.
With that in mind, I do really love a contained story too. I almost always look up a game on HowLongToBeat before I play anything new. But those are always solo or small co-op games.
In my mind there’s just a big difference between MMO, or even multiplayer games, versus solo and small co-op games. And I still want my large-scale forever games.
Tyler Edwards (blog): I think the original article is mainly talking about single-player titles, and in that context I entirely agree. I am so incredibly over these mile wide and inch deep games that offer 150 hours of gameplay, but only 10 hours of actually memorable experiences. Give me quality over quantity any day.
When you add multiplayer to the equation, things get a bit more nuanced, but even there I think most games aren’t really meant to be forever, and that’s okay.
Take StarCraft II. Some people seem to view it as a failure because it’s in maintenance mode, but… no. It’s just finished. The story had nowhere left to go. There’s not much more you can do to expand the factions in PvP without making things senselessly overcomplicated. Another co-op commander or two would have been nice, but by and large the game just has everything it needs, and there’s no need to just keep piling on patches for the sake of it.
While MMORPGs by their nature are kind of intended to be “forever” games, even there I think a narrowing of scope would be good advice for most. You can’t really be all things to all people unless you’ve got Blizzard-level resources, and arguably not even then. Just pick one or two things your game does well and focus on that, whether it’s questing, dungeons, PvP, or whatever. I think games spreading themselves too thin trying to appeal to everyone instead of catering to loyal niches is a good chunk of what led the MMO industry to the dismal state it’s in today.
Every week, join the Massively OP staff for Massively Overthinking column, a multi-writer roundtable in which we discuss the MMO industry topics du jour – and then invite you to join the fray in the comments. Overthinking it is literally the whole point. Your turn!